Tangled Conversation: Giving Life

When we talk of giving up our life for another, what does that mean? What life, what aspect of life? Is the fact that we can have a discussion parsing it a sign that we are missing the boat on this?

Yeah, what life can a son of God give? Jesus Christ is all in all, He is our life.

Then what are we to give? What do we have to give? We certainly cannot or should not give OUR life, that is our old life, for that was put out of business at the cross. Or was it, was it just the flesh? What's the difference?

Seriously, what is life? What is the life of Christ? He came to give us life -- what is it? Is it even a what? For He is life, then it is a Who.

Then, if it's a who, approaching it as a what will just lead us away from the Person.

Will it, I mean understanding an aspect, is that wrong? Or rather is it unprofitable?

I don't know. I think it is profitable, but there is this siren call to trust in it, to trust in our eventual understanding rather than trusting in the Person. We trust His strength, power, goodwill, etc... because we trust Him the Person, these things flow out of Who He is.

Back to life. What is it? Well it's a Who. So what is giving a Who? How can we give our life for a friend if our life is another person? Is that even the life we are to give? Is giving our life merely the reprioritization of our desires? Is it the tricking, the methodization, the training , the self-willing of ourselves to change our set of priorities such that they are so effectively overwrought with those of another that they are effectively changed?

Hmmm what I see there is that the flesh can do that. Or better stated, the flesh thinks it can do that, and values that, because ultimately the flesh is still in control and getting the glory.

I can see that, I can see that. But then the question becomes what's the giving of our lives outside this illusion we've mapped out through the flesh? I like the question, is it the giving of a Who? I think the reality of that is not our giving of anything. It is Him giving Himself.

So we giving our lives is in reality just Him giving His? Why the distinction then? Does it go to the spiritual unity we now have in Christ? Or have we missed the boat again?

Knowing us...we've probably missed the boat, but let's continue on in absurdity...because we can. I think possibly part of the problem is that there is an underlying and invisible spiritual reality that manifests itself on the stage of physicality...

I don't know if that's a mixed metaphor but it sounds good. So the Who manifests His life in and through us. We've talked about that before. What does that mean in the realm of us the vessels giving up our lives?

Does giving up our lives mean allowing Him to manifest His life in us? That sounds cliched. No seriously, that does sounds cliched, though its very chic right now.

Well I think it is becoming a slogan and it is the slogan that is mistaken for reality rather than what that statement was originally pointing to. It's the problem with words, language, culture, and fallen humanity. But an overused slogan does not mean that what it is talking about is untrue. Is giving life allowing His life to be expressed in and through us?

Oh so you hand the question right back to me? Well maneuvered. Perhaps it is an issue of faith. It is giving up our abilities shall we say, or better stated, perceived abilities, for His. But is it ALLOWING Him to be expressed? Something about that doesn't sit well.

Oh I agree. Is it an allowing? Seems as if we deign to let God do something, as if we are over Him somehow. Is allowing the reality? Come to think of it I think it's faith again. Faith is not an allowing, it is the receiving of that which has already been given. Trusting, believing, and dependence are not in reality an allowing -- they are the receiving. It would be like going to Niagra Falls with a teacup and stating that the filling of the teacup was "allowing" the falls to fill it.

So it is by faith that we give up our lives?

It would have to be. Because on our own we wouldn't do it. If we could why would He have in our place. We cannot and could not save ourselves, so we must not fall into a Galatian-like error thinking that we can continue on in ANY aspect of Christianity by ourselves or even in and of ourselves. It is only in and of Christ. Period.

Dogmatic much?

True. That's where I am right now. Or better stated, that is where the Lord has either led me or allowed me to rest right now.

A good place? I'm there too.

Anywhere with Him is a good place. It has to be, for nothing is good outside Him.

"Clever girl." True though.