Tangled Conversation: Talking to God
Ever notice how our language changes when we talk to Him? It becomes staid. It's boring, it's almost chanting, you know like a mantra.
Yep, I'm as guilty of that as anyone else.
And then there's our habit of saying one of His names over and over. You know as a vain placeholder while we collect our thoughts. Oh and theology, stating our theology in the prayer. And another thing, why do we have to talk sooooo long.
So is this just a vent session, and you want me to nod and pretend to be interested, or is this a dialogue? I just want to know the rules before I play this game.
Haha. Yes it's a dialogue. Besides as so often is the case, the only reason I "complain" about something is that I recognize it, and the only way for me to recognize it is for me to possess the problem myself. So in this case, yes, I find myself doing all this. So, that being cleared up, shall we return to the points at hand?
Indubitably.
Let's go deeper. So I guess the question is why? Why do we talk this way?
Is it necessarily a bad thing? I mean we are talking to God you know. Perhaps it is a product of our reverence.
Yeah, I could see that, but I don't think that's it. Reverence is not that big a thing with us, or else our behavior would be different. So that's an entirely different issue, though certainly a problem. No, I wonder if our behavior stems from misunderstanding.
How so? Misunderstanding what?
Well...and give me latitude here, I'm just fleshing this out...it's religious. It's us trying to reach up to God. What if He's saying, and has said, "Knock it off. I've come down to you. So I could bring you up to me." In other words, talk to him where you are.
Ooooo that is intriguing, and ripe for discussion. An attitude of faith is not one where we say I can (on my own), but one where we say I cannot, but You can.
Riiiiiiiiight, wait, what? What does that have to do with prayer conversational tendencies?
Just this. We don't have to change, He changed us. We don't have to dress up. He put the robe of righteousness on us. We are His child. The child of a ruler does not address the ruler by their position, but by their relationship. The son or daughter would not say, Mr. President, but would say Daddy.
Yes, yes! That's what I was getting at I think. We pray like we're talking to the President, addressing the office. But why not pray like we are addressing our Father, the person.
So in the relationship of intimate sonship we don't need the accoutrement of pretense?
I don't think we do. Not that the high sounding traditional words and style are wrong or right. It's the attitude behind the actions, which often, but not always, define the word choice in the first place. And the attitude is the atmosphere of our prayers. We have this attitude of fear -- so we use this fearful sterile language. But if we know His perfect love, it will cast out all fear. And corporately we have this attitude of needing to be accepted by our peers -- so we pray in an acceptable stilted manner. But if He's all we want and need, then we are free to be different as He has led us to be so.
But couldn't being conversational be construed as disrespecting Him?
Yep. But He went a long way out of His way to show us how much He loves us. Entering His creation, being subjected to it, being beaten and tortured by it, and finally when the work was complete dying in it [laying down His life]. So to me I don't think He's got this immanence hang up. Now He IS immanent, omnipotent, and omniscient. But what if He's comfortable with all that and doesn't need to be constantly reminded of such? WE NEED TO BE CONSTANTLY REMINDED, not Him. But if in our prayers we are constantly reminding Him, we are really just talking to ourselves, because, again,WE need the reminding, not Him.
So you'd argue that a more conversational prayer would be more in line with the reality of His work and His Person?
Well, not that formally. We are just having a conversation. It's not up for scholastic review. I would say that a more conversational prayer style could INDICATE a heart attitude that is more in line with who we are in Christ, what Christ has accomplished, and Who He truly is. But I'm not advocating a conversational prayer program where one just flips a switch because some elder says we are going to begin praying this new way and then he starts saying, "Whaddup, JC. How is my Lorizzle and Lifizzle? Wanted to rap with you a bit 'bout dis family stress I gots this week..." I would think that as we are brought deeper into an abiding relationship with Him, we'd not allow old prayer traditions to get in the way of expressing our hearts to Him.
Lorizzle and lifizzle?
Lord and life, you need to get out more. You know, developed and popularized by Snoop Dogg. It's like a hip-hop pig latin....oh never mind.
Yep, I'm as guilty of that as anyone else.
And then there's our habit of saying one of His names over and over. You know as a vain placeholder while we collect our thoughts. Oh and theology, stating our theology in the prayer. And another thing, why do we have to talk sooooo long.
So is this just a vent session, and you want me to nod and pretend to be interested, or is this a dialogue? I just want to know the rules before I play this game.
Haha. Yes it's a dialogue. Besides as so often is the case, the only reason I "complain" about something is that I recognize it, and the only way for me to recognize it is for me to possess the problem myself. So in this case, yes, I find myself doing all this. So, that being cleared up, shall we return to the points at hand?
Indubitably.
Let's go deeper. So I guess the question is why? Why do we talk this way?
Is it necessarily a bad thing? I mean we are talking to God you know. Perhaps it is a product of our reverence.
Yeah, I could see that, but I don't think that's it. Reverence is not that big a thing with us, or else our behavior would be different. So that's an entirely different issue, though certainly a problem. No, I wonder if our behavior stems from misunderstanding.
How so? Misunderstanding what?
Well...and give me latitude here, I'm just fleshing this out...it's religious. It's us trying to reach up to God. What if He's saying, and has said, "Knock it off. I've come down to you. So I could bring you up to me." In other words, talk to him where you are.
Ooooo that is intriguing, and ripe for discussion. An attitude of faith is not one where we say I can (on my own), but one where we say I cannot, but You can.
Riiiiiiiiight, wait, what? What does that have to do with prayer conversational tendencies?
Just this. We don't have to change, He changed us. We don't have to dress up. He put the robe of righteousness on us. We are His child. The child of a ruler does not address the ruler by their position, but by their relationship. The son or daughter would not say, Mr. President, but would say Daddy.
Yes, yes! That's what I was getting at I think. We pray like we're talking to the President, addressing the office. But why not pray like we are addressing our Father, the person.
So in the relationship of intimate sonship we don't need the accoutrement of pretense?
I don't think we do. Not that the high sounding traditional words and style are wrong or right. It's the attitude behind the actions, which often, but not always, define the word choice in the first place. And the attitude is the atmosphere of our prayers. We have this attitude of fear -- so we use this fearful sterile language. But if we know His perfect love, it will cast out all fear. And corporately we have this attitude of needing to be accepted by our peers -- so we pray in an acceptable stilted manner. But if He's all we want and need, then we are free to be different as He has led us to be so.
But couldn't being conversational be construed as disrespecting Him?
Yep. But He went a long way out of His way to show us how much He loves us. Entering His creation, being subjected to it, being beaten and tortured by it, and finally when the work was complete dying in it [laying down His life]. So to me I don't think He's got this immanence hang up. Now He IS immanent, omnipotent, and omniscient. But what if He's comfortable with all that and doesn't need to be constantly reminded of such? WE NEED TO BE CONSTANTLY REMINDED, not Him. But if in our prayers we are constantly reminding Him, we are really just talking to ourselves, because, again,WE need the reminding, not Him.
So you'd argue that a more conversational prayer would be more in line with the reality of His work and His Person?
Well, not that formally. We are just having a conversation. It's not up for scholastic review. I would say that a more conversational prayer style could INDICATE a heart attitude that is more in line with who we are in Christ, what Christ has accomplished, and Who He truly is. But I'm not advocating a conversational prayer program where one just flips a switch because some elder says we are going to begin praying this new way and then he starts saying, "Whaddup, JC. How is my Lorizzle and Lifizzle? Wanted to rap with you a bit 'bout dis family stress I gots this week..." I would think that as we are brought deeper into an abiding relationship with Him, we'd not allow old prayer traditions to get in the way of expressing our hearts to Him.
Lorizzle and lifizzle?
Lord and life, you need to get out more. You know, developed and popularized by Snoop Dogg. It's like a hip-hop pig latin....oh never mind.
posted by GBT at
Thursday, November 03, 2005
